4 thoughts on “In the beginning…

    • First of all, sorry this response has taken so long…too much overtime at work.

      Though work may not do the body good, it is good for the soul, so-to-say!
      Thank you for the article, I found it rather interesting…indeed! Though I may disagree with its premise, it was still a very good and insightful read!

      First of all, what is a doctrine? A principle belief, tenet, or position that is held and taught based upon what was read and researched. Romans 8:16 states, “The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.”; and verse 26 says, “…the Spirit himself intercedes for us…”; and Ephesians 3:16 tells us, “…through his Spirit…” which infers God’s Spirit, or the Holy Spirit. We often forget that when man can name a thing they can, in-fact, define. Consider the parallel argument of “corporations”, these are fictions of the state government. A little money, paperwork, and >poof!< they exist; but what few do realize is that these corporations in the eyes of the law are also “persons” and were granted personhood through the Fourteenth Amendment and Supreme Court rulings. The point being that the Holy Spirit in the eyes of the Christian community is the third person of the Trinity doctrine based upon the biblical descriptions given.

      Second, man cannot understand fully, in my opinion, the heavenly things due to his finite being and mind; this was reiterated by the Evangelist, Billy Graham in his book “Nearing Home,” as well as many others. Man, in order to understand the heavenly must place it in terms he can understand which are in human, finite terms, of this world. That being said, the misunderstanding of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are hierarchical in nature. Consider the three branches of government – Executive – Legislature – Judicial. Each of the three are purported to be equal in nature, power, and essence.
      But in truth, despite their advertisement, they are equal but have very different qualities. And though they be equal, the Judicial branch has no ability to enforce any of its decisions, thus leaving the Legislative and the Executive to fight for constant overbearing power. Father and Son are equal, but the Son submits to the Father out of hierarchical need. The Holy Spirit, or the Spirit of God, is the helper or comforter which lives with(in) us to guide us. The Father is greater in the family hierarchy and hence the God head, or Trinity nature and belief is what we base the family hierarchy upon with Jesus explaining much through His parables.

      Third, it has been a long standing belief that God was self created and existed at the beginning with the Son and the Holy Spirit.

      Thank you for the article…it was fascinating!
      Godspeed to you my friend!

  1. No worries for the delay 🙂 Thanks for the reply.

    I conclude you reject all the scholars and encyclopedias even those of the church, although you find it interesting, what you are informed in the article, which is scripturally backed up. That in itself isn’t new though. 🙂 Very well..

    I know US of America have some ridiculous laws, lets not use them as a basis for what acceptable, logical or good. 🙂

    You say Jesus and God is equal, while they are not, but aren’t because for some reason Jesus feel likes he should submit because he isn’t really equal after all. Then you move on to say God is created..and the power of God, his active force, is actually a person, only to top it all off by suggesting , or insinuate, that God isn’t perfect and his powers are in constant battle. Or that’s how I understood it.

    I do quite well understand the Godhead and it’s no mystery to me, it’s written plainly and support the 20ish bulletpoints I mention a bit below. 🙂


    Instead of reinventing the wheel and make a wall of clumsy text here in a reply, please, allow me to show you a few more interesting articles 🙂 They more perfectly encompass my words and lift my burden of proof in a nice and pleasant logical read.

    Is jesus God or even his equal? What does the Bible say? Lets see here

    As you read this, especially towards the end where we have 20 quick bullet points.. notise.. if you hold up the church doctrine that “Jesus is equal to God” then it conflict massively with what the Bible says. Even if they were equal but Jesus had submitted(for absolutely no logical reason) then they would still conflict. I have a few more in mind I need to add now I think of it.

    If we Identify the true God and take a brief look more at the trinity here

    In what way is Jesus and his father one? Lets find out.

    Then I would like to show you more in depth what the Holy spirit is accordingly to the Bible instead of a doctrine from Council of Constantinople:)

    May I ask, do you worship a cross?
    or statues of angels, mary, saints etc ?
    Believe in Hell?
    celebrate the accomplishments of soldiers?
    Or even join them?

    I ask to gain insight into how you apply and study the Bible.

    • Odd, should I give up my belief based upon scripture for another’s? With that line of reasoning, should I have given up my faith when I read Dawkins book “The God Delusion” because he is a scholar? Perhaps, I should have become a monk or priest because I read and study the bible? If the problem you have is with doctrine, then those who purport to teach such doctrine (which is specific to the individual sects of Christianity and is simply a position taken on a matter)…don’t we all take a position either for or against something? Pretty much anything? Pentecostals believe you shouldn’t drink, yet Paul suggests a little wine for the stomach (1 Tim 5:23). Some sects suggest no dancing, yet King David danced before the people and the Lord (2 Sam 6:14). A sect of Baptists believe that wine is not fermented, yet Jesus responded that in the people’s eyes He was, by chance, a winebibber (Matt 11:19; Luke 7:34).

      I am suppose to rely on The New Encyclopedia Britannica who indicated that Jesus and His followers did no “intend” to contradict the OT Scripture (Deut 6:4); when in-fact they have misread the bible itself (i.e., Gen 1:26 “Let Us make man in Our image…”; Gen 11:7 “let Us go down and there confuse their language…”) Does that mean there is a Trinity of and by itself? No, but reading the Old Testament with the New Testament together grants a better understanding. The Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit (Helper, Comforter, etc.) are mentioned which infers a Triune God.

      And I could probably write up a thesis with respect to my concerns to the Catholic Church and its doctrine and dogma. I have a bunch of letters after my name also and I do not classify myself as a scholar but a lifelong student! In all my studies I have learned that there is a lot I do not know. Then, of course, I got married…and I really learned that I didn’t know it all!

      Not really certain what you are trying to prove, or do, with your discussions with me…but you got me on the edge of my seat and on my toes!

      I never insinuated that God is not perfect! You can cloud the issue of God all you desire to, it doesn’t change my belief in God…only raises questions about your motives with respect to the issues. My understanding may be construed as faulty – but they work for me. Also, if I discover a faulty belief, I address it and make necessary changes based upon the information available. Man being faulty, has that ability to change for both the good and the bad…which is the beauty of Freewill.

      I do not worship a cross…had problems with that growing up as a Catholic. However, the cross is but a symbol of the resurrection, whereas the crucifix is symbolic of the torment and sacrifice Jesus suffered for mankind. Nor do I worship statues, angels, Mary, or the Saints.

      I do, as do most Christians, believe in Hell.

      I appreciate our soldiers; however misused & scapegoat they may be by the government and administration at hand. It is the governments that wages war and then hold for trial the soldier that carries out their wishes and policies. Men in a combat situation are in a no win situation – however, I do believe they should be held morally accountable for the bad/poor decisions they make; any atrocities occur during the carrying out of policy…the government should be held liable, those making such decisions and commands.
      I was in the military, if that is what you mean; however, you would have to be far clearer on your meaning and insinuation.

      Was this intended to be an inquisition or an interrogation? Did I pass or fail?

      By the way, I will start reading through the other series of papers, as I just printed them out. I will respond as I get a chance. Thanks for the links!

      God Bless & Godspeed!

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